"Yeah, but that seller is nuts!"

No new bike photos today - too much rain and cold right now. But I've put up a previous photo to go with a few observations.

A big part of this hobby is online trading: swapping, buying, and occasionally selling old bikes. The vast majority of people I have dealt with have been good people: honest, sociable, and interested in preserving old bikes. I've met some great people over the years.

But every so often you come across a seller who is just plain nuts. Sometimes the pricing is the insane part: a nice item but the price is five-times the real value. Sometimes the seller is the crazy part: nice item, but dealing with the person is a nightmare. If you've been in the hobby long enough, you've probably run across a few of these kinds of sellers...

The ones that hurt the most are when you see a nice bike at a reasonable price, but then you see who is selling it and you say to yourself, "Yeah, but that guy is nuts!", either through experience or having seen him operate before. 

[If I refer to a "he" or a "guy", it's only because that has been my experience - that most these crazy online sellers are men. I'm sure there are gals in this hobby who have behaved in a crazy manner, but mostly it seems to be some of the guys I come across...]

 And I preface again - the vast majority of people in the old bike hobby are nice people who are great to talk with. But every so often... you find a clunker. 

 

 "The Angry Seller with a Bike and a Beef"

I've seen people who turn ads into long diatribes about perceived low-ballers, scammers, "experts" (we'll get to that in a moment), tire-kickers, time-wasters, etc. It seems there's a gripe for every type, as the saying goes. When you see the ad turning into a diatribe, walk the other way. It's a sign of a very negative person who has too many problems going on. I've found that dealing with perpetually angry, negative sellers just isn't worth the trouble. It hurts to see a nice bike at a good price in the hands of a seller who is just angry all the time and has a beef with everyone else.

I understand no one likes low-ballers or scammers. I've had people try to pull a fast one on me in the past as well. But if anger and suspicion are all-consuming... it may be time to find another hobby. 

 

"The Omniscient Seller"

This is the seller who claims to be an expert in vintage bikes but who has very bad information. He'll tell you a certain bike or part was made or never made, when something was made, and that your information is wrong (even if your information is right). He'll fight you over serial number meanings. This seller is pretty arrogant... He knows his bike is 100% original, even if it has a 1970s saddle on a 1940s frame. He'll become combative if you try to challenge him. "Yeah, that's your opinion!" is usually a response he'll throw out when things break down. This seller and the "angry" seller are becoming more a problem as people start to rely on internet searches and AI bots for information. As with the "angry seller", sometimes the price is good and the bike is something you want. But you have to deal with the seller's ego trip first... Often not worth the aggravation. 

 

"The Gold Miner"

This seller is kind of a permutation of the omniscient seller. He knows he has an old bike and that old bikes are worth a lot of money. He knows his old department store junker is worth $1,500 at least. I don't even bother when I see insane prices, I just keep on moving...  He watched "American Pickers", so he must know, right? As I said, I just keep on moving when I see the insane prices...

 

"The Political Seller"

This is a permutation of the angry seller and omniscient seller. This seller brings politics or religion to the equation. You're trying to buy a bike but the guy segues into politics or religion during the transaction. I think this is mainly an American issue and a feature of our current, polarized environment. I don't object to people having opinions or even expressing them to some degree to me. It is good, on some level, to be engaged in the political realm. But when it turns into a long rant about national politics (whatever the political persuasion may be), it's probably better just to move on.  

  

"The Vanishing Seller"

Another kind of problem seller in the market is the one who simply disappears and re-appears at will. I dealt with a seller awhile back who at first was receptive to selling a nice bike, at a reasonable price. I asked about coming by to see the bike and he went silent for three weeks. He then started up communication again as if I'd never talked to him before. We got back to negotiating a time for me to come by and he vanished again for two more weeks. Eventually I just stopped messaging him because whenever it came time to firm up the sale, the seller would ghost me. 

 

"The No-Show"

The no-show is usually a buyer issue more than a seller, but sellers sometimes do it too. This is a ghosting of the next level. This is where you do firm up a time and place to meet, you go out there, and then the person never shows up. You may get a text saying "I can't make it", or "I changed my mind". Maybe you get nothing... This is frustrating. If you get ghosted in this way without a family emergency or a medical issue to back it up, block the person. Again, not worth your time. I've had it happen to me... several times.

 

"The Unbending Seller"

Then there are sellers who just don't want to change anything... at all. This is the seller who won't change  price, won't negotiate, won't ship, won't work with you on shipping, won't work with a local bike shop, and won't do anything at all to facilitate the transaction. He won't leave home and he won't meet at the time you want to meet. It's his time, his place, his price, his terms... and nothing else. Again... not worth the time or effort, in my book.

 

 

I'll close by again saying, most people I've met have been great people - knowledgeable, friendly, and enjoying old bikes. But "you can't win them all". It's frustrating when you see a seller has a good bike or several good bikes are reasonable prices, but you know just trying to contact him will start the cycle of trouble... whatever the person's issue might be.

 

 

Winding Down the Season - Raleigh Content

 

1958 Raleigh Sports

We're down to the last week or two of riding season here. The weather is much cooler now (though not really "cold" yet) and the days are shorter. I can handle the cooler temperatures but am finding it harder to get enough daylight to ride after work. That is really the only time during the day I have when I can get out on the bike. It's dark now by shortly after 6:00 p.m. Once the clocks roll back this coming weekend, it will be dark too early for me to ride much more.

A beautiful Tulip Tree in front of an old house

I took out the 1958 Raleigh again. It has a wonderful 1950s era FW four-speed hub. I've owned this bike for quite a few years now and have always enjoyed riding it. These 1950s bikes show Raleigh at the top of its game in terms of quality and finishing level. The pre-war bikes tend to steal the collector spotlight, but the 1950s, I find, are actually higher in quality and finishing (even if they don't have quite the same collector interest).  

Fall colors around a pond

 

1958 Raleigh Sports with LED lights

Copake Auction 2025 - Bicycle Review

The auction house in Copake, New York has long been known for its bicycle auction, traditionally held in the spring but in recent years held each October. Let's take a look at some of the utility bike and three speed lots from this October's auction.

 

Raleigh Record Ace bicycles have always commanded a premium. This pre-war Record Ace is no exception. At $960, it went for a handsome price, but not one that is totally unreasonable. Record Aces are highly sought-after by Raleigh collectors as a premium offering, especially before WWII. 

 

 

Raleigh X-frame or cross-frame roadsters were never common in the USA. They were a staple of pre-WWII English cycling, but never made the same impact in the USA. The traditional, diamond frame was always more popular here in the USA. This pre-WWII cross-frame roadster sold for $360. It appears to have a damaged top tube and incorrect paint, but still commanded decent money because of how rare these bikes are in the USA.  

 

 

This ladies' Humber Sports sold for $120, not a bad price for a ladies bike. Unfortunately, ladies bikes are parted out, and perhaps that's what drove the value in this case. It's a nice bike for someone who likes a step-over frame.  

 

 

Older Sunbeam bicycles command a premium in the USA. Before being bought-out, Sunbeam was one of the more luxurious brands, competing with the likes of Raleigh. This Sunbeam sold for  $300, a fair price for an unusual bike in the USA, and a decent example of a luxurious three speed.

 

 

 Older BSA bikes from before the buyout also command a premium. BSA was well-known as a maker of quality bicycles in competition with Raleigh, especially prior to WWII. This BSA roadster is very tall, but despite being so tall, still sold for $240. Still.. not a bad price if it fits you. But you'd better be pretty tall.... 

 

 

Two Raleigh Twenty bikes were for sale. Both were coffee colored and both in pretty good shape. One sold for under $100 and other for just over $100. Those are excellent bargains for the buyer (not a great price for the seller). Raleigh Twenty bikes have a cult following and are excellent riders. It seems like common, post-war Raleigh bikes have not had strong values the past few years, while more unusual and earlier bikes haven't quite taken the same value hit.

 

Now let's compare the Raleigh Twenty bikes, which sold for very little money, to the Schwinn Runabout, a less-common small wheel bike in the same class with the Twenty. This Schwinn Runabout sold for $600, way more than the Raleighs. The Schwinn bike is relatively uncommon and enjoys cross-over interest from the Schwinn collector community and the muscle bike collector community. The difference is night-versus-day: the Schwinn sells for many times what the Twenty brings, even if the Twenty is the better-made and better-riding of the small wheel bikes. Condition, age, and rarity are kings as between these bikes.

 

Take-Aways

So what do I think are the take-aways?

• Condition, age, and rarity are still the three kings of pricing a vintage utility bike. Luxury brand bikes from before WWII in good shape still command considerable prices, particularly for top-of-market bikes. The Raleigh Record Ace is a great example of a classic English bike that commands a premium. 
• Mid-market and down, the market is kind of soft right now. Raleigh Twenty bikes are common in the USA, but there was a time when they commanded higher prices. At one point several years ago, I was seeing them sell for $300+ for a good example. In this auction, these examples sold for around $100. Great bargains if you're seeing them for those prices.
• Cross-over interest is important. If your bike, such as the Schwinn Runabout, has cross-over interest from buyers with money: Schwinn collectors, muscle bike collectors, etc., then you see higher prices. The Twenty is an objectively superior bike compared to the Runabout - the frame is lighter, the bike is designed to ride and handle more like a full-sized bike, the Twenty folds, etc. But the Runabout is much more valuable today because of that broader collectors interest.
• Ladies' bikes still take a value hit. Some of the ladies bikes sold for very little money in this auction. The Humber had some good parts on it, so probably sold for parts value. I don't see much increase in value for these ladies' bikes in the near future (except as to parts). 
• Lastly (but not least) - this is still just a hobby. Old utility bikes won't make you rich and you don't earn a living off them. But they are enjoyable and still mostly affordable collectibles that also ride wonderfully. "Keep Calm and Carry On", as the saying goes.