Riding Vintage Bicycles on the Road to Irrelevance

 

The end of riding season here has given me some time to reflect on the vintage bicycle repair hobby. I've written recently about difficult sellers who hurt the hobby, and I've written more generally about trends and people that drive away new people. I've also discussed a few basic things that can help to remedy some of those negative trends. 

This article provides a basic discussion of how certain online venues contribute to making the vintage bicycle repair hobby less relevant to cycling in general. 

 

Old-School Forum Users - Arguing the Tangential and Esoteric

Online discussion fora are one of the older forms of medium dealing with vintage bicycles. There is no shortage of them still operating, in a variety of languages and focusing on a variety of old bikes. I love old-school fora for discussion because they are technologically simple but also offer a direct line to expertise on a variety of subjects. 

But when discussions on these website go bad, the rabbit hole is potentially bottomless. Sometimes one or two "keyboard warriors" monopolize a discussion and endless debate generates all heat but no light on a subject. 

Some fora also have an "old boys club" of gatekeepers who belittle new members or gang up against differing opinions. A newcomer will notice this within about two weeks of joining because the same handful of people always seem to "go nuclear" in a pack when certain subjects pop up. 

Some fora ostensibly about old bikes devolve endlessly into tangential discussions by long-time members about whether vinyl records are actually "niche", whether supply and demand principles apply (or what "supply" and "demand" actually mean), or whether bike helmets make riders less safe somehow (including numerous sequels to that discussion). 

Some fora refuse to curb lunatic members who spout conspiracy theories and bad information. They may suspend these members, but they keep coming back. [For example: a user who jumps into a thread about repairing an old middleweight bike with claims the L.A. wildfires were set by the government using a laser; or a user who claims vaccines have altered his dreams in a thread about bike path usage. No links here - I'd rather keep this humane and preserve the posters' anonymity]. Then there are the users who think personal attacks are OK if you disagree or who make outrageous statements. [For example, a user likening his repaired/"saved" bicycles to Jewish people being saved from the Holocaust. Again, I won't post a link singling the person out, to keep this humane.]

I deeply believe in freedom of speech and open discussion. But it is possible for discussion in this hobby to degrade to the point that sane people and newcomers just walk away. Once that happens, you start down the road of irrelevance.

 

Reddit and Similar - the Peanut Gallery Strikes Back

Reddit is less "clubby" than online fora seem to be, but it has its own virtues and vices. Reddit tends to have more "drive by posts" where people modestly interested in a subject throw out advice (good or bad), then roll on to the next topic. Some of the hardcore Redditors may act like "gatekeepers", but it seems it is the peanut gallery who rule the roost.

Newcomers and casual posters absolutely can give some very good advice. But I've also seen people show up, post bad advice or incorrect information, then roll on to the next topic. The person asking for help hopefully is redirected to the right information, but if they take bad advice and something breaks down on their project, then it just leads to more frustration.

Reddit has a lot of potential but it seems very chaotic and disorganized to me. It has a different set of vices from the "rabbit hole" problem that the traditional online forum might have. 

 

Videos: Be Careful What You Wish For...

There's a famous, old story from the early 1900's called "The Monkey's Paw". In it, an enchanted monkey's paw will grant three wishes to each of its owners. However, it grants those wishes in twisted and horrifying ways, as the price for altering fate. [Worth reading, if you have not - it's a classic.]

In a sense, streaming and seemingly endless online video venues are "what we may have wished for" as hobbyists 20 years ago. But as with the monkey's paw, the wish was granted in a chaotic and distorted way. 

Some online vintage bicycle videos are very well-done: they give good details, move at a workable pace, and provide a certain artistic value. But others devolve into long and rambling rants, bad information, or insidious and misleading advertising. In a sense, we received an endless stream of classic bike videos that would have seemed impossible in the days of UseNet emails and dial-up internet, but many of the videos show our hobby to be at best inaccessible, or at worst, an online lunatic consortium. 

For example, I love hearing about how you fixed your kickstand or your brakes, but I don't want a long rant about President Trump, either for or against, while you try to fix stuff. Just fix stuff or show stuff on your bike video and be treat others as you would want to be treated... Again, I won't single-out anyone, to be humane about this. 

Other videos have click-bait titles,  and at first appear to be legitimate, but gradually it becomes apparent to the viewer that it's actually an advertisement for a particular shop or product. I have no issue with a certain amount of advertising, but be honest about it up-front, or at least make it optional. I shouldn't get 6 minutes into a video and realize the entire video is going to be about a particular vendor you use. Be honest with people and it's a lot more comfortable for everyone...

Then there is the concern about privacy, data use for marketing, shafting many decent content-creators, etc. The companies running these services do pretty well compared to many of the small-time content creators using the service. And then there's the ever-present, "If you don't know what's for sale here, then it's you." Who knows where your data is being sold by some of these companies. Other companies running these services have connections to shady companies or hostile foreign regimes and dictatorships.

The monkey's paw gave us our wish of immediate access to a wide range of information in video form, but the way it came was somewhat twisted and with some nasty strings attached. 

 

So, What's the Point?

The point here is that in each of these venues, we should always strive to engage in a productive way with newcomers. Sometimes that means encouraging a new project, other times it can be counsel about a project that will be a money pit. Sometimes it means verifying our information or providing scans of manuals or classic bicycle literature. [FYI - the Veteran Cycle Club in England has a wonderful library of literature and information available to members. It is well-worth joining.] Other times online venues can be used to facilitate group rides and shop/co-op repair days. 

We should work to make each of these online venues productive and helpful to hobbyists of all skill levels and not allow them to devolve into the hostile, nonsensical, overly esoteric, or exploitative. 

Ask yourself, "what did I do to help someone today?", which is good advice in the vintage bicycle hobby and perhaps for life in general. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Will the Vintage Bicycle Hobby be Gone in 20 Years?

 

A recurring topic today is what the hobby of refurbishing, collecting, and riding vintage bicycles might look like in five, ten, or even twenty years. 

If we're being honest, the future for most vintage bicycle segments is not strong. I wonder sometimes where we will be in 20 years, if this hobby survives in any substantial way at all. Why?

1. An aging demographic.
2. Antisocial or predatory behavior by some savvy, older collectors.
3. A generally sour economic situation in most places.
4. Parts and bike availability in some segments.
5. Rising incidental costs: shipping, consumable parts, etc. 

At the end, I will offer a few ideas that may turn the tide back against the general decline being caused by those factors.

Trends

1. An Aging Demographic: Most categories of vintage bicycles have an aging following. This is true of older 3-speeds, 10-speeds, balloon tire bikes, muscle bikes, and middleweights. Collectors who would generally be called "baby boomers" are the largest contingent, with younger collectors in the muscle bike, BMX, and vintage mountain bike categories. But even collectors in the generation x or millennial categories are aging into middle-age. Caring for children or grandchildren tends to take up time and resources as collectors age. Eventually old age and health problems sideline many collectors. Without an influx of younger collectors, the hobby stagnates and contracts. And there there are electric bikes. It seems like the under-30 crowd love electric bikes because it means less work (and maybe less exercise).  

2. Behavior: In the 30 years or so I've been in the vintage bike hobby, I've seen some instances of bad and predatory behavior, usually among some older collectors. This can take the form of trying to low-ball or down-swap new collectors, selling damaged or misrepresented goods to new collectors, or generally just dressing down new collectors through snobbish "gatekeeper" type behavior. I must say that the majority of collectors and sellers I have encountered are honest, good people. But it only takes one or two bad interactions to drive new collectors out of the hobby. So even if a small minority of the collector population behaves badly, that still can dampen interest by new people. The behavior in some countries seems better than others. At least in the USA though, I can confirm there is a certain contingent of older collectors who will give a new person "the treatment" if it means scoring a valuable bike/part or making a few extra dollars. 

   As long as this fairly describes "some" or "a few" members of the hobby, it will continue to be a problem for all of us in terms of bringing in new people. I have a story to illustrate this point. There was a vintage bicycle shop in my wife's hometown in an area known for antiques. I needed a set of pedals so I went to the shop. I walked in and the owner apparently had what he thought was a novice (he'd never seen me before). The shop owner tried to feel out what kind of old bikes I might have. I thought he was being friendly at first, but he dropped the "friendly" angle when he found out I had a bike he wanted. At that point he recommended I sell it to him for a "fair" (i.e. low-ball) price or even donate it so he could add it to his "museum", which was actually just his home collection. Being knowledgeable, I end up passing and getting pedals elsewhere. But a true novice might have been sucked in and lost a valuable bike for a low price or even just given it away. This kind of behavior is predatory and it hurts the entire hobby when it drives out new people.

   [Note - I cannot take credit for calling this kind of behavior "predatory". A fellow collector talking to me used this term for some of this market place behavior by older, savvy collectors. It struck me that it's a very fitting term for this behavior.]

3. A Sour Economic Situation: The economy is sour for most people, and has been for years. It has hit younger people especially hard due to education debt, housing costs, medical costs, etc. Most people are increasingly struggling with inflation, higher expenses, and flat employment prospects. Regular people worry that artificial intelligence might take their jobs. There is a general economic pessimism since COVID, and that holds many people back from discretionary purchases. Certainly vintage bikes fall into this category. How can you buy a vintage bike, even an affordable one, if you have $5,000 in medical bills sitting on the living room table? 

4. Parts and Bike Availability: Have you ever noticed that in some vintage bike categories it used to take days or weeks to find a certain older part, but now it takes months or even years? You're not alone. You may have in your head that a "40 year old bike" is a classic Schwinn balloon tire bike or a three speed Raleigh, but in reality the "40 year old bike" is now a 1980s BMX or mountain bike. As we get farther out from original production, bikes and parts dry up in some segments. Reduced demand also has not increased available supply. The result is you want longer for a part or bike to appear, but when it does appear, the price is generally lower. It's a weird combination. The lower price is buyer-friendly, but the wait seems to be longer if you're looking for that "one, really old part" you need to complete a project. 

5.  Rising Costs: It seems all the peripheral expenses of the hobby have gone way up. Tires, tubes, and handlebar grips are more expensive. Shipping costs are way, way up. Spokes are expensive. Brake pads go in and out of stock. Tariffs hit foreign supplies of parts, particularly those where you cannot get a USA-made or USA-stocked alternative. All these things hit the hobby, and when they hit all at once, new people may just find it all too expensive to get started.

So, What Can We Do?

We need to make the vintage bike hobby accessible and attractive to younger people. The hobby can teach younger people shop skills, how to start and follow-through on a project, how to negotiate sales, and how to "play nicely in the sandbox" (as the saying goes). This hobby is not the entirety of anyone's life, but it is a venue where younger people can learn valuable skills that come in handy throughout life. It also helps get them away from their mobile devices and into the "real world", not to mention good exercise. We cannot control the economy, but we can make this hobby friendlier to newcomers.

1. Take a Helpful Tone with New People: If you see a younger person interested in old bikes, offer to help them. This could mean selling a bike at a discount or donating a bike. It could mean teaching basic shop skills. It could be referring a young person to a bicycle club or a bike co-op. Instead of just asking what kind of bikes the newcomer owns, ask him how projects are coming along and if he or she needs help. 

2. Get Involved Generally: This is kind of a platitude, but there is a truth to it. If you have a local bike co-op, find time to volunteer. If you have a local bicycle club, donate old bikes that you may not need, or donate your time. Show up to local bicycle swaps with a bike or two and show younger people what these old machines are like. Ride vintage bicycles on the local road or trail group ride.

3. Connect With Individuals Online or Offline: Talk with younger hobbyists or people who might be interested. Don't be that person who tries to feel out if you can wrangle a nice old bike from a newcomer. Instead, offer to help that person with information, ideas, or skills. You can do this both online and offline. Offer to help without compensation. Share your collection with others rather than squirrel it away where no one will see. Ride vintage bicycles and talk with others when they say "hello" or ask questions.

4. Cut the New Person a "Break": Maybe you have a bike you want to sell. Instead of trying to get top dollar, offer a strong discount to a newer collector. Or maybe you have parts you don't need. Offer to give or discount parts to a new person who may find them useful. 

5. Always Be Fair: Don't shade or misrepresent item conditions. Disclose faults, and if the buyer seems like a novice, explain what's important to look for in a particular part or bike. Use the sale or trade as an educational opportunities. Again, don't try to low-ball or wrangle something valuable from a new person just to expand your collection.

6. Be Very Slow to Judge Others: If a newcomer shows up with a beat-up, 1970s department store bike because it's all they have, don't put the bike down. You don't know if this person has financial issues, or health issues, or whatever. If this is what they have, help the person with information or ideas to get the bike on the road. Don't immediately resort to the "it ain't worth it, kid" kind of thing. You can certainly encourage the person to be realistic, but do it helpfully and not in a critical way.

7.  Lastly, treat others as you would want to be treated. I'm convinced 60% of life's controversies and problems would be solved if people sincerely followed the "golden rule". I think it's the same in this hobby. 

 

 

"Yeah, but that seller is nuts!"

No new bike photos today - too much rain and cold right now. But I've put up a previous photo to go with a few observations.

A big part of this hobby is online trading: swapping, buying, and occasionally selling old bikes. The vast majority of people I have dealt with have been good people: honest, sociable, and interested in preserving old bikes. I've met some great people over the years.

But every so often you come across a seller who is just plain nuts. Sometimes the pricing is the insane part: a nice item but the price is five-times the real value. Sometimes the seller is the crazy part: nice item, but dealing with the person is a nightmare. If you've been in the hobby long enough, you've probably run across a few of these kinds of sellers...

The ones that hurt the most are when you see a nice bike at a reasonable price, but then you see who is selling it and you say to yourself, "Yeah, but that guy is nuts!", either through experience or having seen him operate before. 

[If I refer to a "he" or a "guy", it's only because that has been my experience - that most these crazy online sellers are men. I'm sure there are gals in this hobby who have behaved in a crazy manner, but mostly it seems to be some of the guys I come across...]

 And I preface again - the vast majority of people in the old bike hobby are nice people who are great to talk with. But every so often... you find a clunker. 

 

 "The Angry Seller with a Bike and a Beef"

I've seen people who turn ads into long diatribes about perceived low-ballers, scammers, "experts" (we'll get to that in a moment), tire-kickers, time-wasters, etc. It seems there's a gripe for every type, as the saying goes. When you see the ad turning into a diatribe, walk the other way. It's a sign of a very negative person who has too many problems going on. I've found that dealing with perpetually angry, negative sellers just isn't worth the trouble. It hurts to see a nice bike at a good price in the hands of a seller who is just angry all the time and has a beef with everyone else.

I understand no one likes low-ballers or scammers. I've had people try to pull a fast one on me in the past as well. But if anger and suspicion are all-consuming... it may be time to find another hobby. 

 

"The Omniscient Seller"

This is the seller who claims to be an expert in vintage bikes but who has very bad information. He'll tell you a certain bike or part was made or never made, when something was made, and that your information is wrong (even if your information is right). He'll fight you over serial number meanings. This seller is pretty arrogant... He knows his bike is 100% original, even if it has a 1970s saddle on a 1940s frame. He'll become combative if you try to challenge him. "Yeah, that's your opinion!" is usually a response he'll throw out when things break down. This seller and the "angry" seller are becoming more a problem as people start to rely on internet searches and AI bots for information. As with the "angry seller", sometimes the price is good and the bike is something you want. But you have to deal with the seller's ego trip first... Often not worth the aggravation. 

 

"The Gold Miner"

This seller is kind of a permutation of the omniscient seller. He knows he has an old bike and that old bikes are worth a lot of money. He knows his old department store junker is worth $1,500 at least. I don't even bother when I see insane prices, I just keep on moving...  He watched "American Pickers", so he must know, right? As I said, I just keep on moving when I see the insane prices...

 

"The Political Seller"

This is a permutation of the angry seller and omniscient seller. This seller brings politics or religion to the equation. You're trying to buy a bike but the guy segues into politics or religion during the transaction. I think this is mainly an American issue and a feature of our current, polarized environment. I don't object to people having opinions or even expressing them to some degree to me. It is good, on some level, to be engaged in the political realm. But when it turns into a long rant about national politics (whatever the political persuasion may be), it's probably better just to move on.  

  

"The Vanishing Seller"

Another kind of problem seller in the market is the one who simply disappears and re-appears at will. I dealt with a seller awhile back who at first was receptive to selling a nice bike, at a reasonable price. I asked about coming by to see the bike and he went silent for three weeks. He then started up communication again as if I'd never talked to him before. We got back to negotiating a time for me to come by and he vanished again for two more weeks. Eventually I just stopped messaging him because whenever it came time to firm up the sale, the seller would ghost me. 

 

"The No-Show"

The no-show is usually a buyer issue more than a seller, but sellers sometimes do it too. This is a ghosting of the next level. This is where you do firm up a time and place to meet, you go out there, and then the person never shows up. You may get a text saying "I can't make it", or "I changed my mind". Maybe you get nothing... This is frustrating. If you get ghosted in this way without a family emergency or a medical issue to back it up, block the person. Again, not worth your time. I've had it happen to me... several times.

 

"The Unbending Seller"

Then there are sellers who just don't want to change anything... at all. This is the seller who won't change  price, won't negotiate, won't ship, won't work with you on shipping, won't work with a local bike shop, and won't do anything at all to facilitate the transaction. He won't leave home and he won't meet at the time you want to meet. It's his time, his place, his price, his terms... and nothing else. Again... not worth the time or effort, in my book.

 

 

I'll close by again saying, most people I've met have been great people - knowledgeable, friendly, and enjoying old bikes. But "you can't win them all". It's frustrating when you see a seller has a good bike or several good bikes are reasonable prices, but you know just trying to contact him will start the cycle of trouble... whatever the person's issue might be.